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Amaizing lion and humam relationship

Tiger, lion, cougar, leopard, anything cheetah size or larger

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Taigafox
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Amaizing lion and humam relationship

Postby Taigafox » Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:53 pm

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blacksagephoenix
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Re: Amaizing lion and humam relationship

Postby blacksagephoenix » Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:47 pm

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Re: Amaizing lion and humam relationship

Postby veralidaine » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:57 am

I'm not sure where the photos are from but the actress who started the 'Shambala' reserve is Tippi Hedren and was on the nature of things episode 'the american tiger' where she was extremely vocal about how 'horrible and stupid' exotic animal ownership is. She's actually behind a lot of the anti-exotic bills that have been brought to the white house. I did not like her at all; she seemed to have no facts to back up any of her claims, just anecdotal evidence, and just seemed to be making noise, in my opinion. You can watch the episode if you go to cbc.ca and go under 'video' to the nature of things
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Re: Amaizing lion and humam relationship

Postby wadifahtook » Wed May 09, 2012 1:42 pm

Ah, so it is okay for Tippi Hedren to own large cats and pachyderms, and to use them for entertainment in movies....just no one else? Can't watch any videos right now, but curious if that is the stance she takes. Seems like a lot of AR leaning people I meet have issues with control.

http://www.rexano.org/TIPPI.htm
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Re: Amaizing lion and humam relationship

Postby Lionsniper » Tue May 21, 2013 2:23 pm

Thanks Taigafox for posting those photos. Tippi's stance is hypocritical but very few (if any with lions) can handle their cats the way Tippi did. So many people get lions, tigers, leopards only to either give them away in Animal Finder's Guide to people with permits or have them spend the rest of their lifetime locked away in a cage. I am pro-circus and for those in the entertainment world like Siegfried and Roy who truly give the larger cats the proper home and attention and do not do this for egotistical reasons as the average owner with the larger cats do. I have raised far too many of these cats and worked for people in the private sector who have done this. Cougars make really great pets, leopards do too for the right person as well as the others but the size of tigers and lions make it easy to get injured if you do not work them daily, give them a job, constant enrichment and stimulation, they are used to roaming hundreds of miles, any documentary will show you this. The bond with a big cat, bear, elephant is amazing but it can also be very selfish on the part of the human if you deem your pet is now too dangerous too handle and is banished to a life in a cage. I raised my first 2 tigers at 26 and yes it was an ego trip, but then after many years in the business of exotics I grew up. The place I volunteered at, the kids slept with the lioness, this is the life a captive tiger or lion should have, otherwise it is just selfish motives for keeping one.
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veralidaine
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Re: Amaizing lion and humam relationship

Postby veralidaine » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:15 pm

I definitely agree that big cats are not for everyone but to what extent should we tar people with the same brush? I guess I'm for treating situations like individual entities; if somebody keeps their big cat in horrible conditions for egotistical reasons, that's bad and they should be dealt with accordingly but why treat everybody like they're of the same mindset?

Also, my dispute with the whole 'they travel hundreds of miles in the wild so they shouldn't be kept in captivity' is that the whole reason they travel hundreds of miles is quite simply, food. Lion prides require a huge amount of food to survive, meaning that they constantly have to be near a large, sustainable source of food, e.g herds of buffalo. Herds travel long distances, to avoid predators and to find water when certain sources dry up, so naturally the lion pride has to move too, to stay close to the herd. If the food-related motivation to travel is fulfilled, why would they need such large spaces anymore?
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Re: Amaizing lion and humam relationship

Postby sarajeku » Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:27 am

The lions I worked with were SO lazy. They knew they were going to be fed, so they would just lay around and wait for it. I've seen the male lion get smacked in the face with a whole raw chicken and he just looked at it like "meh. I'll get it later. I'm tired."

The female was a little more active than the male, but still, she would wait where she knew she'd be fed, and just lie there and wait patiently. She wouldn't pounce on it or attack it. Although, the few times we gave them a whole donated deer, the female got very excited and tried to "kill" it.

Given the choice, the lions would just lay around and sleep all day, just like any cat would.
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Re: Amaizing lion and humam relationship

Postby Lionsniper » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:35 pm

Big cats in captivity are not going to act like their wild cousins as they are fed every day and are bored to death, I had a family member liken it to being imprisoned in a cell and having no where to go and he was right. It made me rethink things. I have been working with big cats since I was 26 in a variety of venues from the movie business to private ownership to sanctuaries. The movie business and the circus business I am all for because the cats are worked and are not declawed or defanged which is a barbaric practice among many amateur, egotistical owners who cannot handle the animals the way God created them so they cripple them to protect themselves. If you watch documentaries on the big cats, they have huge territories in which to roam, swim, climb, and of course, hunt. On Facebook there are photogs from India and Africa showing just how far these cats travel and how they spend their time. I am all for private ownership when the animal lives like part of the family and not stuck in some enclosure with no daily walking, activity, etc. There was a man from Canada who had a fantastic tigress, slept with her, took her to presentations, this I can stand up and fight for. Also, cats have excellent control of their claws, no need to remove them, you can also cut them with nail clippers, train them from cubs to accept this if you so choose, but the occasional scratch you may get is what you should accept if you wish to own these magnificent creatures or work with them. I've just seen too many big cats become crippled in their old age from declawing or act out because they no longer have the ability to scratch and mark their territory which is innate in them. :happyfox:
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Re: Amaizing lion and humam relationship

Postby Ash » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:43 pm

Lionsniper, I really appreciate the advice you have been giving. It is great to hear from someone who has spent so many years working around these magnificent animals.

In your opinion, what would be a proper-sized enclosure? And what enrichment do you suggest?

Thanks! I'm sure many would love to hear what you have to say.
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Lionsniper
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Re: Amaizing lion and humam relationship

Postby Lionsniper » Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:11 pm

I am not trying to offend anyone here, just stating what my heart and experience has led me to feel after so many years. I own 10 acres of which 3 are for my 1 horse. In order for me to own or keep 1 big cat, 1 or 2 acres would still not be sufficient, but this is how I feel. When cats are worked on a movie set or have large inground pools to swim in or trees in their enclosures to climb on, lots of room to run, Josip Marcan maintains such a place, former circus trainer, this I feel is doing justice to these animals. Also, many European circuses provide such enrichment for their animals. When I used to clean enclosures, I would move around the "cage furniture", the cats could not wait to get back in there and explore, lick the bowling balls with my scent or flower essence on them, knock over the barrels, jump in their pools to get the toys. It is really great to see a tiger claw the hell out of a tree and be able to jump and play in it and see cougars lounging up in the treetops, space to move about and still enjoy their walks around the facility. Also, feeding a whole carcass is enrichment for these animals. They play for days with the hooves and legs and if you have to do a shoot, then you simply do not feed them something they will get bloody and dirty with or you simply give them a bath or hose them off, no big deal, but you would be surprised how many owners refuse to take the time to do this. I guess for me at this stage of the game, I envy Kevin Richardson? where you can interact with these animals and they have great amounts of space of which to roam, even if they are in acres of enclosures. Ideally, to raise and release big cats back to the wild is something I wish I could do. The circuses may not have huge enclosures, but they provide daily stimulation, enrichment and love to those animals and the animals enjoy performing just like many racehorses enjoy racing. Bottom line the circus animals are family, not possessions. :eleph:
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Re: Amaizing lion and humam relationship

Postby Splashstorm » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:30 pm

Im so jealous of that lady and her big cats O_O
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TamanduaGirl
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Re: Amaizing lion and humam relationship

Postby TamanduaGirl » Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:43 am

So are you cool with how Z from REXANO keeps her big cats?
http://www.youtube.com/user/BigCatHaven/videos

Some here too
http://www.youtube.com/user/REXANOEXOTICS
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Re: Amaizing lion and humam relationship

Postby Lionsniper » Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:37 pm

I am glad you posted Zuzana. She has had this lion from a cub and declawed it and yet she still can not lay on it, ride it, love it the way she should be able too for spending so much time with this lion. If you notice, Tippi does not have a stick to hit the cat with it in her hand if it misbehaves and she keeps her distance, my point is is that there seems to no longer be any "real" cat people left, back in the 70's and 80's :happyfox: people would drive around with their pet lions in convertibles, or where I volunteered, take them to college football games because they were the mascot. Could Zuzana control this lion like this, I think not. Btw, I have let Rexano use my photos and articles but I cannot represent an organization that is using animals strictly for ego purposes.
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Re: Amaizing lion and humam relationship

Postby TamanduaGirl » Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:06 pm

He has is claws. You can see a claw here when he grabs the present bag http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONpDAJUIwmY

"people would drive around with their pet lions in convertibles"

But that's part of how we got to where we are getting everything banned. She has video of grooming him all over, and her playing with him and kissing on him and her tiger playing with her dogs. All I see her holding in any videos is a hair brush which that or a stick would do no good anyway. Oh and in one she had a plastic candy cane filled with candy. I think she does advocate having some sort of protection in case of an incident though, like pepper spray maybe. Not sticks to make them angrier though.

She had a photo shoot with him in her home and posed with him in a bikini also. So while he doesn't normally live in her bedroom it seems like there is plenty of bond and trust between them.
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Re: Amaizing lion and humam relationship

Postby Lionsniper » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:02 pm

The bans are all about Government control and that is a whole other issue. All I am saying is it is hard to advocate ownership to someone who declaws (and she admitted that and that is why I no longer am a part of Rexano and lost total respect) and she does not handle the lion now that it is 6 years old, the earlier videos are when he was 2, a lion and tiger reach maturity at 4 and that is the test of who can truly handle a cat or not. I went in and took a friend who had never been around big cats and we hung out and petted an 8 year old circus tiger because I had total respect and trust of the trainer who allowed the time and the photo shoot with this cat who had claws. I am quite sure that all circus people do not maim their cats by declawing. I just don't understand why someone would declaw or own an animal they truly cannot handle, if they truly loved big cats and understood them. This is the reason behind the bans and I am sure why Tippi jumped on that bandwagon.

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