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What subspecies is the Timber/North American Grey Timber Wolf?

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caninesrock
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What subspecies is the Timber/North American Grey Timber Wolf?

Postby caninesrock » Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:39 pm

Ok, so while looking at high content wolfdog breeders and pure wolf refuges, I ran into these two names. The problem is there is no such subspecies as a Timber Wolf. The closest is the Eastern Timber Wolf (Canis lupus lycaon). Is that what subspecies these places have or is it another subspecies and if so, what subspecies?

By the way, the places are:

Big Run Wolf Ranch which refers to some of their animals as North American Grey Timber Wolves
http://www.bigrunwolfranch.org/our_wolves.html

and the following places which refer to their animals simply as Timber Wolves

Bear Creek Sanctuary
http://www.bearcreeksanctuary.com/wolfnames.htm

Wild Spirit Wolf Sanctuary (though only list as having Timber Wolf x Arctic Wolf crosses though)
https://www.wildspiritwolfsanctuary.org/our_animals.php

Sea Crest Wolf Preserve
http://www.seacrestwolfpreserve.org/cpg ... hp?album=5
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Re: What subspecies is the Timber/North American Grey Timber Wolf?

Postby Ash » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:04 pm

Contacting those facilities with an academic question like that would be appropriate.

For reptiles, it is the species' locality (rather than the subspecies) that people will use to label their animals beyond species. Most of the time locality is more important anyway since if there is ever a taxonomic change, it is going to be determined by locality. I don't know how flexible wolf taxonomy is, though it is likely more set in stone than reptile taxonomy is.
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Re: What subspecies is the Timber/North American Grey Timber Wolf?

Postby Cindy23323 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 7:48 am

Timber wolf is just another name that people usually use for Grey wolf. There is no subspecies called timber wolf
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Re: What subspecies is the Timber/North American Grey Timber Wolf?

Postby caninesrock » Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:59 pm

I know there's no subspecies called Timber Wolf which is why I was asking. I find it weird though that these places listed their other wolves with specific subspecies like British Columbia Wolf for example and then just randomly refer to other wolves as simply Timber Wolves. Do you know what subspecies they really are?

According to wikipedia, there's two subspecies of wolf for which the slang term of Timber Wolf may refer:
Timber wolf, timberwolf, timber wolves or timberwolves might refer to:
Any of several subspecies of Canis lupus which inhabits forested areas, especially:

eastern wolf, also known as the eastern timber wolf
northwestern wolf, also known as the Mackenzie Valley wolf or northern timber wolf


Do you know if any of the animals mentioned on those sites are either Eastern Timber Wolves or Mackenzie Valley wolves and if not, what subspecies they are?
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Re: What subspecies is the Timber/North American Grey Timber Wolf?

Postby Cindy23323 » Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:32 am

Seacrest I see was one of the ones who did that, a lot of my male Lokis family is there. Grandparents, uncles, aunts, cousins, etc. She listed those puppies as timbers, because they are a mix of different subspecies. Which if you look at some of her pics, that's what she seems to be doing, for ex. Legend here is listed as Gray wolf aka timber wolf. Just another name for Gray wolf mix, no hers aren't those subspecies. Its mostly arctic, bc, tundra mixes in her lines there. http://www.seacrestwolfpreserve.org/cpg ... m=3&pos=00
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Re: What subspecies is the Timber/North American Grey Timber Wolf?

Postby caninesrock » Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:05 pm

@Cindy23323

Aw. That's too bad. I was hoping it was either the Eastern Timber Wolf or Mackenzie Valley Wolf. Beautiful animals regardless though.

Do you know of any places that have either Mackenzie Valleys or Eastern Wolves or Eastern Timber Wolves by any chance?

(The reasons I have Eastern Wolf and Eastern Timber Wolf separate is because some scientists believe the Eastern Wolf is a separate species and the Eastern Timber subspecies of Gray Wolf is actually a hybrid between pure Eastern Wolves and pure Grey Wolves.)

On a different note, do you know if anyone has Great Plains Wolves?

What subspecies do you know that people have?

So far I have found:
several British Columbian
several Arctic
several Alaskan Tundra
and one place that has a single Alaskan Interior Wolf

Do you know of any other subspecies in the private trade?

Thanks.
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Re: What subspecies is the Timber/North American Grey Timber Wolf?

Postby Cindy23323 » Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:42 am

My female is out of a tundra mother and she has british Columbian, and Alaskan interior from her dads side. But as far as who has pure Alaskan Interior I have no idea
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Re: What subspecies is the Timber/North American Grey Timber Wolf?

Postby naja-naja » Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:55 am

A timber wolf is probably a wolf of mixed north american ancestry, like generic tigers. if they have been captive bred for multiple generations then the lineage can get mixed or the details of ancestry lost through the sales of each subsequent litter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timber_Wolf

Timber wolf, timberwolf, timber wolves or timberwolves might refer to:

Any of several subspecies of Canis lupus which inhabits forested areas, especially:
eastern wolf, also known as the eastern timber wolf
northwestern wolf, also known as the Mackenzie Valley wolf or northern timber wolf


The trouble with common names is there are no rules to them like there are with scientific names, it's how you end up with confusing scenarios like the cougar having loads of common names and then panther or leopard referring to a few different species.
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