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Wolf Subspecies

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Splashstorm
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Re: Wolf Subspecies

Postby Splashstorm » Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:58 pm

The Caspian sea wolves is lumped into a different subspecies now, called Canis lupus campestris.

The steppe wolf was classified as gray wolf subspecies Canis lupus campestris in 1804 by Russian scientist Ivan Dwigubski. It is also known as the Caspian Sea wolf and the Caucasian wolf. Most taxonomists recognize the Canis lupus campestris, Canis lupus bactrianus, Canis lupus cubanensis, and the Canis lupus desertorum as being one and the same subspecies.


And thanks for the Russian wolf tip. I'll add that to my list of gray wolf subspecies. :thank:
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Re: Wolf Subspecies

Postby caninesrock » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:31 pm

Splashstorm wrote:The Caspian sea wolves is lumped into a different subspecies now, called Canis lupus campestris.

The steppe wolf was classified as gray wolf subspecies Canis lupus campestris in 1804 by Russian scientist Ivan Dwigubski. It is also known as the Caspian Sea wolf and the Caucasian wolf. Most taxonomists recognize the Canis lupus campestris, Canis lupus bactrianus, Canis lupus cubanensis, and the Canis lupus desertorum as being one and the same subspecies.


And thanks for the Russian wolf tip. I'll add that to my list of gray wolf subspecies. :thank:

Where did you get that quote from?
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Re: Wolf Subspecies

Postby Splashstorm » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:40 pm

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Re: Wolf Subspecies

Postby caninesrock » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:31 pm

Splashstorm wrote:I think it was from here:
http://www.cosmosmith.com/steppe_wolf.asp

That is not a reliable source. It's just someone that made a website. It's not a scientific site.
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Re: Wolf Subspecies

Postby sarajeku » Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:11 am

It doesn't matter if it's a scientific site or not, as long as sources are cited somewhere on the website. If you can find the sources, then the info is legit. Always be skeptical of all information until you can find the actual articles.
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Re: Wolf Subspecies

Postby Splashstorm » Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:34 pm

Yeah, plus that site's been up for 13 years now, and the person who runs it is always updated on all the new subspecies/species changes that scientists keep doing.
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Re: Wolf Subspecies

Postby caninesrock » Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:40 pm

That site has no references or sources listed for its info. Also, I already know some of its other info is wrong. It says the British Columbian wolf has been hunted to extinction,but that's false. The British Columbian Wolf still exsists. It's just been reclassified and lumped with the Mackenzie Valley wolf I think or maybe with the Arctic Wolf(I can never remember which).

Here is an interesting but really long read on the taxonomy of wolves and how they went from 24 North American subspecies to only 5 because of reclassification(not extinction):
http://www.fws.gov/midwest/wolf/delisti ... ttedMS.pdf
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Re: Wolf Subspecies

Postby Splashstorm » Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:45 am

Hmm.. It says:

The British Columbian wolf was classified as subspecies Canis lupus columbianus in 1941 by senior biologist Edward Goldman.

STATUS
Hunted to extinction.


They probably mean that the canis lupus columbianus were hunted to extinction (which I'm guessing they were, because we no longer have any canis lupus columbianus listed anywhere.. )
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Re: Wolf Subspecies

Postby Splashstorm » Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:48 am

Their extinction is listed on this site as well: http://www.wolfhowl.org/subspecies.php
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Re: Wolf Subspecies

Postby TamanduaGirl » Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:39 am

Websites are not real sources Splash. A proper source is something like USFW or ISIS if you are going to cite something on the web. It needs to not be just what a person thinks but what the government and/or the scientific community thinks. Which can vary but generally the majority consensus is what is accepted.

There is this from the USDAFS but I often find their info to be bad on somethings actually
http://www.fs.fed.us/database/feis/anim ... u/all.html

ITIS tends to be pretty good.
http://www.itis.gov/servlet/SingleRpt/S ... lue=180596
Info on ITIS http://www.itis.gov/standard.html
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Re: Wolf Subspecies

Postby Splashstorm » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:19 am

Yeah, true. Thanks for the sites.

However, I looked more into the quote below, and there has been other articles about the change:

The steppe wolf was classified as gray wolf subspecies Canis lupus campestris in 1804 by Russian scientist Ivan Dwigubski. It is also known as the Caspian Sea wolf and the Caucasian wolf. Most taxonomists recognize the Canis lupus campestris, Canis lupus bactrianus, Canis lupus cubanensis, and the Canis lupus desertorum as being one and the same subspecies.
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Re: Wolf Subspecies

Postby TamanduaGirl » Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:29 am

Well, I don't mean to get involved in the debate, just saying choose sources carefully.

Though if you are going to quote something, you should cite the source, good or bad.
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Re: Wolf Subspecies

Postby caninesrock » Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:14 am

They probably mean that the canis lupus columbianus were hunted to extinction (which I'm guessing they were, because we no longer have any canis lupus columbianus listed anywhere.. )

They aren't listed anywhere because they are no longer considered their own subspecies. They are lumped with another subspecies. Some breeders of high content wolfdogs mention having British Columbian Wolves though.


Their extinction is listed on this site as well: http://www.wolfhowl.org/subspecies.php

That site has alot of incorrect info as well and also no sources listed. For example, it says Great Plains Wolves are extinct,but they still exsist and are in fact one of the most common subspecies in North America. They are the wolves found in Yellowstone National Park. Also,on their pseudo-wolves page, some of those are real wolves, i.e. Red Wolves,Dire Wolves, Ethiopian Wolves(though is still some scientific debate on whether to consider them wolves or jackals), and I'm not entirely sure why they listed domestic dogs on that page,but dingoes on the other as both are subspecies to the gray wolf yet not exactly wolves technically.
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Re: Wolf Subspecies

Postby Splashstorm » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:27 pm

The Yellowstone wolves are actually all Alaskan wolves that they brought over. And red wolves, domestic dogs, and dingoes are considered gray wolves now, which is why they probably listed them.
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Re: Wolf Subspecies

Postby caninesrock » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:58 pm

Splashstorm wrote:The Yellowstone wolves are actually all Alaskan wolves that they brought over. And red wolves, domestic dogs, and dingoes are considered gray wolves now, which is why they probably listed them.

Last year, I went to a talk at my zoo with the Wolf Biologist Doug Smith,who is head of the Wolf Reintroduction Project and asked him about it and he confirmed that the Yellowstone Wolves are the Great Plains subspecies. They have nothing to do with Alaskan wolves. The Alaskan Wolves are Mckenzie Valley Wolves and Arctic Wolves.

Also, I said that that site has domestic dogs and red wolves on the page as not being true wolves when they are. The page is called "Pseudo" Wolves meaning fake of false wolves. Red Wolves are also not considered Gray Wolves anymore. They are either considered Gray Wolf-Coyote hybrids or their own species of Canis rufus.
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