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whole prey items

Recall info and Home Made Receipes

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naja-naja
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whole prey items

Postby naja-naja » Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:41 am

does anyone here feed whole prey items to their mammalian carnivores or omnivores? rats, mice, chicks, poultry, rabbits etc? either as a large/main part of the diet or more sporadically as a treat? I'd be interested to read your experiences. I normally buy rats, mice and rabbits in bulk for my reptile collection as it is so I was thinking about feeding excess and refused prey items to mammals when I get round to acquiring a few.
Thanks, Teddy.
1.4 burmese pythons
0.1 indian pythons
0.1 boa constrictors
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1.2 reticulated pythons
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hecate
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Re: whole prey items

Postby hecate » Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:16 pm

I ordered rats from RodentPro for Mulder and Scully (bobcats). We started with pups when they were small, then moved up to weaners and finally smalls as they grew. I tried some mediums but they didn't go over real well.

Whole prey is ideal, assuming the animals agree. As they got older, Scully would only play with rats, not eat them. Mulder would only eat the front ends.

ratbutts.jpg

That is exactly how she left them for me to clean up.

I tried them on quail and rabbits as well. They ate the rabbits and played with the quail. Scully recently killed another suicidal rabbit through the fence when nobody was there to take it away. She ate most of it (rabbits regularly get in my Greyhounds' turnout as well, you'd think that behavior would be gone from the gene pool by now).

The bobcats I've taken care of have always been very picky about their food being fresh. I would expect species who are predator-scavengers wouldn't care.
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Ash
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Re: whole prey items

Postby Ash » Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:09 am

My foxes are not taking whole prey as a staple yet, but they sure do have a hay-day when the snakes refuse a meal, lol. Right now the rats are just for treats and food on occasion, but that's just because I haven't bred enough yet to be able to afford to feed them as a staple.

I can let you know how it goes once my rodent rack is filled and producing regularly. I started with five young rats (3 females) a short while ago, and now I have over 35. In the next two months, I imagine my rack is going to be overflowing with rodents (can't wait) and that's when I'll start giving whole prey regularly.

I'm surprised the bobcats are so picky, lol. If it were me (personally), I would make them hungry enough to take the whole rat. When one of my foxes got picky a few years ago, I started feeding less, and then he went back to eating everything he was supposed to (entirely). Then I went back and started giving the regular amount. I don't let my animals waste food, lol. :lol: I know the bobcats aren't technically yours yet, so not sure what you can do different diet-wise with them, but that's what I would do. Feed less until they start eating the entire prey item.

Your plan would work. :) I know several people who do that--thaw a bunch, give to their reptiles, then feed what wasn't eaten to the mammals (as long as it hasn't sat out for too long, of course). You don't want to feed your mammals B-grade.

By the time winter and summer hits, my foxes will all be on whole prey (fingers crossed).
3 red fox, 4 pectinata iguanas, nile monitor, BW tegu, sailfin dragon, leachie gecko, 6 snakes, salamander, 3 tarantulas
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Alynn
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Re: whole prey items

Postby Alynn » Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:48 am

Miehiera and Burton regularly get whole rats and mice at the Creature Conservancy.
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Re: whole prey items

Postby TamanduaGirl » Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:50 pm

Jake brings Beaker injured mice then watches proudly as Beaker plays with them but neither of them eat them. Hyzzie caught a couple mice in her life time but she didn't eat them either. She was way more serious about it though. Beaker thinks they're toys. Hyzzie was protecting her household.
naja-naja
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Re: whole prey items

Postby naja-naja » Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:07 pm

all of my b-grade (and even c-grade if they've been sitting on the heat for 24-36 hours bleugh!) go to the tegu, anything still half decent i try to feed to other snakes first, the tegu is a savage, she'll eat nearly anything!
i was just thinking right now i'm ordering enough to feed what i have, but eventually it will be more economical and less hassle to order a pallet load at a time, and defrost a box or bag of each size at a time, as opposed to counting out exact numbers of each size. so i'll have spares then, most i can probably get rid of feeding to lizards and hopefully, crocs but it's good to know mammals appreciate them as well.
1.4 burmese pythons
0.1 indian pythons
0.1 boa constrictors
1.1 macklott's pythons
1.2 reticulated pythons
0.1 blue tegu
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Ash
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Re: whole prey items

Postby Ash » Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:12 am

That's why I need to get a monitor or a caiman, lol. Then anything that sits out for too long can go straight to them. They are the true garbage disposals! Then there would truly be no more wasting anything.

You should post pictures of your tegu. :) I LOVE the blues. We have a regular black and white Argentine tegu where I work, and she's such a doll-baby.
3 red fox, 4 pectinata iguanas, nile monitor, BW tegu, sailfin dragon, leachie gecko, 6 snakes, salamander, 3 tarantulas
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hecate
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Re: whole prey items

Postby hecate » Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:47 am

Ash wrote:Feed less until they start eating the entire prey item.

I tried that a while back. Mulder, the wild one, did eat more of the rats but became very aggressive. Once Scully decided she didn't like rats any more that was it. She will play with them but to her they just aren't food. Even when she kills mice, voles, shrews, and such in her enclosure she never eats them.

Mulder has been released, but before that they were starting to fight. I didn't want to do anything to increase that behavior with its attendant injuries. Scully has never behaved aggressively toward humans, just toward Mulder, but now I don't want to encourage anything that the rehab director can use as a justification for killing her. She's one of those better-dead-than-"captive" types. Funny thing though, she has no problem with giving an adult albino porcupine who was hit by a car to a children's zoo. Never mind it was a healthy adult except for losing a disagreement with a motor vehicle. I just love hypocrites.

Rabbits, though, have always been eagerly accepted. Too bad they're so expensive, except when wild ones win Darwin Awards by voluntarily going into the bobcat (or Greyhound) enclosure.
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Ash
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Re: whole prey items

Postby Ash » Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:49 pm

Ah, that makes sense. Yeah, you wouldn't want them fighting.

It's a shame you don't have more control over them. I think I remember reading you say that you were wanting to get USDA licensed so that you could take them? Or something like that, I don't quite remember.
3 red fox, 4 pectinata iguanas, nile monitor, BW tegu, sailfin dragon, leachie gecko, 6 snakes, salamander, 3 tarantulas
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hecate
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Re: whole prey items

Postby hecate » Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:30 am

For day-to-day care I have virtually 100% control. The rehab member on whose property she's housed is too busy to mess with her and the rehab director is only interested in stuff that can be used for fundrasising publicity. They have a HBC albino porcupine now so the pressure's off Scully.

Last August when the rehab group brought out the bobcat kittens they dropped off this for food:

dogfood2.jpg
ONE case of ADULT DOG FOOD for 10-week-old bobcat kittens
rabbits1.jpg
Frozen rehab-failure baby cottontail rabbits, cause of death not reported

I refused to even offer them that garbage dog food. Neither bobcat would eat the rehab-failure rabbits. I thawed and posted a couple of the less-decomposed-looking ones. Gross examination showed severe dehydration and extensive gastroenteritis, about what I'd expect for rabbits fed KMR. They feed that crap to everything.

That was over a year ago. They never brought out any more food for the bobcats. I've paid for everything myself.

Scully's temperament and behavior is outstanding not only for a wild-born bobcat but even compared to the domestic cat spectrum. I will not do anything to jeopardize that.

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