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LEGAL ISSUES FOR NON-U.S MEMBERS

Exotic legal issues, bans, laws, regulations, Animal Rights discussions etc.

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naja-naja
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Re: LEGAL ISSUES FOR NON-U.S MEMBERS

Postby naja-naja » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:01 pm

TamanduaGirl wrote:About Ireland, what's required to import exotics? I tried looking it up but the other animals section was just exotic-domestics like rabbits. And an article calling for more regulations citing people buying things abroad and coming home with them, which made it seem legal to just bring anything in with no permits or inspection but I doubt that. Just curious.


Sorry, not been on here for a while. For mammals to bring them in legally they would need to be quarantined according to balai rules. this means 4 months on the export side plus 4 months on the Irish side. Or if it's in Northern Ireland you can bring it across the border freely, and as northern Ireland is part of the UK you can also trade from the UK to the North freely. But for non CITES 1 animals you can, practically speaking, buy them in the UK and Schengen area (mainland EU) and bring them in the ferry to ireland and unless you are actually caught in the act, you will be ok once it's on irish soil there are no registrations or inspections and no authorities you need to notify that you bought one, or keep one or breed them, you can say you bought it within the country. anything requiring cites papers issued from it's country of origin will need to be brought in legally/officially though, as that is something they can inspect you on. reptiles are another story there are no quarantine requirement there so you can get a ferry to the uk or mainland europe and bring them back easily, no need to declare unless they are cites species, but as long as you have the receipt or relevant paperwork supplied with the animal you are ok. you can, i think get your own premises certified for quarantine as one of the 3 currently certified is a privately owned zoo (open to the public but owned by an individual) the other are state owned zoos (Well technically owned by a charitable trust called the zoological society of Ireland) so maybe it's possible for a private owner or at least a zoo licence holder. Again, there can be ways around this as if you know the right person who has the right permits up north (as it's part of the UK private owners of certain species need a licence unlike the republic) you could bring an animal from outside the uk but within the eu to their facility, have the vet certify it, and bring it home as long as you have it back on the dates the vet needs to check it or administer any vaccinations. because it's already been quarantined on the island of ireland you don't need quarrantine on the irish side. an execption to this are primates, which cannot be traded between eu member states unless to balai approved facilities like zoos, and these facilities cannot trade in primates with non approved facilities (and in the uk they also cannot trade carnivores with non approved facilities)

all this will change with the advent of brexit as the uk will no longer be part of the single market or free trade area, it's possible that even trade between northen ireland and the republic will be tightened up so for example people normally get the ferry to the uk, drive across it, and get the ferry again to france or belgium when travelling to the eu reptile shows, now we will need to get the overnight ferry to western france and drive from there, skipping the uk, as animals will need to be vet checked etc if they go through the uk. ferry checks between the uk and ireland will likely be stricter as well, making covert importing more difficult.


To sum up, if an animal is already in ireland, it's very easy to own, if you need to import, it's difficult legally, and impossible to get a kitten ligally, due to the 8 month quarrantine. however it is not difficult to do so illegally, and once it's in, you're safe.
1.4 burmese pythons
0.1 indian pythons
0.1 boa constrictors
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TamanduaGirl
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Re: LEGAL ISSUES FOR NON-U.S MEMBERS

Postby TamanduaGirl » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:39 pm

Thank you. Wow 8 months quarantine is bad. Half could potentially be cut but illegal and since would mainly need it for cites animals maybe not advised. I know tamandua are supposed to be quarantined a month in Guyana before being sent to the US but it's often skipped with a bribe on their end. So potentially you could get official paper work that that half was done but not actually done. 4 months is still really long though.

That's neat though that it's that easy for the regular stuff. Might make getting a fennec hard though since cites II but a regular fox or something wouldn't be a problem.
naja-naja
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Re: LEGAL ISSUES FOR NON-U.S MEMBERS

Postby naja-naja » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:50 pm

Cites 2 is only applicable if you are importing or exporting. all my pythons are cites 2 and i just need a receipt proving they are captive bred when travelling to and from shows in the eu. if you got a fennac fox in the uk or eu and got it into the country you could say you got it in ireland and as long as it wasn't micro chipped and registered in another country you'd be safe. the issue would be with cites 1 animals which need to be chipped with accompanying paperwork. for cites 2 animals you'd need the paperwork if you're importing from outside the EU, this can take 6 months or more plus the 4 months quarantine on this side. only really worth it for zoos or breeders getting adults.
The legal way to have it brought in from the uk (for now) without quarantine would be to have it brought to northern ireland, and get it there, and you freely drive back to the republic with it.

it should be noted that the tendency is to have exotics here be mother raised and kept in a zoo like state instead of bottle raised and kept very pet-like. it's illegal to sell mammals before weaned (8 weeks for puppies and kittens for example) and many people buy at 12-16 weeks anyway, instead of the 3-4 weeks that seems common in the US.
1.4 burmese pythons
0.1 indian pythons
0.1 boa constrictors
1.1 macklott's pythons
1.2 reticulated pythons
0.1 blue tegu
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Re: LEGAL ISSUES FOR NON-U.S MEMBERS

Postby TamanduaGirl » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:07 pm

naja-naja wrote:The issue would be with cites 1 animals which need to be chipped with accompanying paperwork. for cites 2 animals you'd need the paperwork if you're importing from outside the EU, this can take 6 months or more plus the 4 months quarantine on this side. only really worth it for zoos or breeders getting adults.


Ah that makes sense.

The legal way to have it brought in from the uk (for now) without quarantine would be to have it brought to northern ireland, and get it there, and you freely drive back to the republic with it.


I was thinking that might be a good way. Have someone in the North act as a broker.

it should be noted that the tendency is to have exotics here be mother raised and kept in a zoo like state instead of bottle raised and kept very pet-like. it's illegal to sell mammals before weaned (8 weeks for puppies and kittens for example) and many people buy at 12-16 weeks anyway, instead of the 3-4 weeks that seems common in the US.


Yeah they have similar views in England, not sure on the legalities of it there though.
naja-naja
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Re: LEGAL ISSUES FOR NON-U.S MEMBERS

Postby naja-naja » Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:10 pm

it's possibly an eu regulation so affects all eu countries, but i could be wrong there. for those that do sell hand reared exotics they tend to do so in closed circles, it's mainly puppy farms that are the target of that law.
1.4 burmese pythons
0.1 indian pythons
0.1 boa constrictors
1.1 macklott's pythons
1.2 reticulated pythons
0.1 blue tegu

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