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UGH - Smooshed faced chihuahuas

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TamanduaGirl
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UGH - Smooshed faced chihuahuas

Postby TamanduaGirl » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:03 pm

https://www.facebook.com/groups/8586244 ... 1303812475

No chihuahuas are not meant to be smoosh faced. Stop it.

May as well be a French Bulldog :(
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Re: UGH - Smooshed faced chihuahuas

Postby Ana » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:22 am

Don't these people understand that these smushed faces are creating breathing conditions?
Good grief.
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Re: UGH - Smooshed faced chihuahuas

Postby TamanduaGirl » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:51 am

Yeah and chihuahuas can have problems already even without the smooshed faces. They are prone to "reverse sneezing" because their soft pallets are too long. Beaker's is shorter than I'm used to already and he gets hot really easy for a white dog.

I've seen the trend in chihuahuas to have shorter noses over the years and don't like it. I'm a fan of the traditional deer type chihuahua but even for an apple head this is overly extreme. That doesn't even look like a chihuahua any more.
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Re: UGH - Smooshed faced chihuahuas

Postby Ana » Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:20 am

All of this 'designer dog' nonsense is grotesque and decadent to me, particularly when we're killing
literally millions every year for simple lack of a home. :/
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Re: UGH - Smooshed faced chihuahuas

Postby Nìmwey » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:59 am

Almost all small dogs, save for some terriers and the Italian greyhound, are brachycephalic. We commonly think of pugs, pekes and French bulldogs as brachycephalic, but pomeranians and chihuahuas are, as well.

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^ These dogs are all brachycephalic (the chihuahua, severely so).
These paintings below show small dogs with real, long faces. We think because they are small, they naturally get larger brains and smaller muzzles, and that's true only to an extent. These apple-faces (or human baby faces) above, are bred for purposely.

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Re: UGH - Smooshed faced chihuahuas

Postby Peacefulward » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:31 am

My chihuahua Sugar has a somewhat smushed face and she reverse sneezes a lot. Guess we got her from a bad breeder, I was too young so don't really remember.

I like the applehead chihuahuas but not the smushed faces. Can appleheads safely be bred without any of these severe health problems, or are appleheads simply unhealthy?
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Re: UGH - Smooshed faced chihuahuas

Postby TamanduaGirl » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:46 pm

The original chihuahua was the deer type chihuahua with a longer nose, think taco bell chihuahua. They came from hot areas where they had to keep cool so had longer muzzles and bigger ears. Applehead has been around a long time too but it's being taken to extremes. They shouldn't be smoosh faced but yeah the appleheads have always had shorter noses but they should still be there.

They all reverse sneeze but ones with longer muzzles are going to be able to cool themselves better and the reverse sneeze not be as extreme. I think appleheads can be healthy and it's the actual AKC standard, just not when the muzzle is really smooshed. I think they went for the rounded head to help distinguish them from terriers.

This is more how appleheads should be not smooshed
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But deer type will always be my favorite
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From the 1940's
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Oh my but they cropped his ears
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Non-extreme apples
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From early 1900
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Re: UGH - Smooshed faced chihuahuas

Postby Peacefulward » Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:13 pm

I like the non-extreme applehead. I wonder if the non-extremes have any health issues.

I'm assuming deerheads are a lot healthier. Too bad the AKC doesn't allow them... I wish the AKC would opt for health > appearance.
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Re: UGH - Smooshed faced chihuahuas

Postby TamanduaGirl » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:02 pm

Yeah they allow long and short coat so why not deer and apple but maybe as separate breeds, like they have large and small poodle breeds. So they could have two chihuahua breeds. The deer type used to be most prolific and popular before the AKC standard went apple head.

The old AKC book I have in the standard does call for apple domed head but moderately short muzzle. Seems to me many breeders and even show judges just kept going for short as can be instead.
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Re: UGH - Smooshed faced chihuahuas

Postby Ash » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:00 pm

Maybe I'm the odd one out here, but I personally don't mind the brachycephalic breeds... I feel like if they were their own "species" you would just take care of them according to their needs. In other words, don't let them outside on a hot day, don't work them too much. I think the problem is, is that people try to treat all dog breeds the same. Little lap dogs aren't meant for hard work so also don't have a need for strenuous activity. They're also INDOOR dogs and should not be outside for extended periods of time. I don't think an animal with specific needs is necessarily an unhealthy animal.

Of course, we know there are breeders who are pushing the short snout thing to the extreme, and I do think those are a problem because then even in good indoor conditions the animal suffers with breathing problems.
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Re: UGH - Smooshed faced chihuahuas

Postby Themphe84 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:08 am

This isn't "designer" dogs. This is the show breeders! You want a look at a designer dog, those are MY dogs. I have five Miniature Goldendoodles, Shichon, three Cavapoos, Miniature Labradoodle, Bich-Poo, Pomchi, two Cockapoo, Shorkie, Cavachon and two Pomskies. They are ages 4 months to 17 yrs.

I was previously a purebred-a-holic. My Cavalier King Charles Spaniel died at 7 from mitral valve dysplasia. My Dachshund had acanthosis nigricans so bad, nothing worked and he eventually died from a horrific skin infection just a week before Christmas. He was 12. Not long after, we lost our 7 yr old Newfoundland from Subaortic stenosis and had to euthanize our other Newfoundland, also 7, because of severe hip dysplasia and he could no longer walk (you can't drag around a 175 lb dog). After that, we had to euthanize our 6 yr old Chocolate Lab because of severe Elbow dysplasia - OCD of the elbow, Hip dysplasia, Retinal dysplasia, acral lick dermatitis (lick granuloma), Atopy and Cataracts. He was blind, couldn't walk and did nothing but chew on himself creating open, bloody wounds. I made the mistake of bringing two more Cavalier King Charles Spaniels into my life, along with a Siberian Husky. My CKCS was 7 when he finally died of Chiari-like malformation (CM) and syringomyelia (SM), which he suffered from his entire life. The other was blind from Cataracts, Corneal dystrophy and couldn't walk from hip dysplasia. We euthanized him at 8. Our Siberian Husky had Cataracts, Corneal dystrophy, Entropion, Glaucoma and Hemophilia. She was blind from the age of 9 months and died at the age of 9 when she was playing in the yard, tripped and suffered lethal internal bleeding. What did I do? I ended up going to a breeder and getting two Akitas, a Miniature Schnauzer, a German Shepherd Dog and another Siberian Husky. My male Akita has such crippling Hip dysplasia that we ended up euthanizing him before his second birthday, as he couldn't walk, was in constant pain, wasn't a candidate for surgery and could only live being carried around while drugged so badly he could only sleep. My female Akita had Cataracts. She was blind by the age of two. It broke her spirit. She wouldn't eat, wouldn't drink and stopped playing. She only slept in her crate. We had to put her on IV fluids and she got so skinny you could see every bone in her body. Eventually, we euthanized her, too. My Miniature Schnauzer had Portosystemic shunt and Sick sinus syndrome. He died at four. Oh, and that poor Siberian Husky! He suffered from Hip dysplasia, Laryngeal paralysis, Pannus - chronic superficial keratitis and Progressive retinal atrophy. He was on anti-inflammatory drugs, had to be mildly sedated 24/7, corticosteroids and eventually went blind. He was about 7 when he stopped breathing one night and we couldn't bring him back. My partner and I bought a Maltese puppy together. A Shiba Inu and two Shih Tzus joined our family, too. We got our Maltese from Maltese Mystique. Dead from heart disease at 8. Our Shiba Inu came from Anderson's Shiba Inus. We had no idea, but she had a tumor on her spleen that ruptured one day. She suddenly fell over dead; 9 yrs old. Our two Shih Tzu puppies came from Miracle Shih Tzu. One died of bone cancer and the other died of heart cancer. We went and got a German Shepherd Dog from Mittelwest German Shepherds. That dog had such bad hypothyroidism that he lived his entire 10 yrs as fat as a cow. During his lifetime we got two Akitas from Royal Akitas. One suffered dementia before the age of 8 and the other was morbidly obese no matter how little food we fed her. Two more Boxers and a Black Lab...cancer, cancer and heart disease. A Chocolate Lab, Fox Red Lab and two Siberian Huskies...cancer, heart disease, epilepsy and kidney failure. Pomeranian and two Chocolate Labs...cancer, cancer and kidney failure. After that, I brought home my first Miniature Goldendoodle (who is now 17) and fell in love. I made the mistake of getting a Cocker Spaniel and two German Shepherd Dogs...cancer, epilepsy and kidney failure took them. What did I do? I got a Yorkshire Terrier, Fox Red Lab and three German Shepherd Dogs...sudden death syndrome, heart disease, heart disease, cancer and pancreatitis. Wait a minute? Why wasn't my Miniature Goldendoodle getting sick? I went back to Doodle Country and got another puppy! Another healthy dog!?! I went to LillyBits Shichon Puppies and got my first Shichon. He was healthy, too! I found Foxglove Cavachons and got my first Cavapoo puppy! Then, I went back to Doodle Country and got a Miniature Labradoodle. What was happening? Why was I suddenly having healthy dogs? There were no sick dogs anymore! None were crippled. None had heart disease. No cancer!

I will never have another purebred dog. I actually asked one of the breeders of my "designer" dogs why every purebred I had was sickly and all my crosses were healthy. She told me to look at the pedigrees. One of my old purebreds from a very "reputable" show breeder had two dogs appear twice in a 3-generation pedigree! He was terribly inbred. Another one had the same dog for sire and grandsire! Every single pedigree I had on one of my purebred dogs showed inbreeding.

I now have 18 crossbred dogs. They are all happy, healthy and the longest lived dogs I've ever had.
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Re: UGH - Smooshed faced chihuahuas

Postby Juska » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:14 pm

Just because a dog is a mixed-breed doesn't automatically make it "healthier" than any purebred dog ever. That's fine if you don't care for owning them but not every single purebred dog is going to have health problems. My mother's 13 year old Schnoodle has intervertebral disc disease. Did him being a mixed-breed have anything to do with that? Who knows. He is, according to his "papers", a 1-1 mix between a mini schnauzer and mini poodle that are both AKC registered. Yet he is a puppy mill puppy. Any dog breed or mix thereof can come from crappy lines or awful breeders.

Why did you buy any of your purebred dogs when they were obviously inbred, if that was a problem for you...?
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Re: UGH - Smooshed faced chihuahuas

Postby Themphe84 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:40 pm

Mixed breeds are always healthier thanks to hybrid vigor. I've never known ANY purebred, not even so-called "reputable" show-bred dogs to not have health problems. I'm sorry your dog has IVDD. One health problem is actually pretty minor considering what most purebreds go through. If he was bred out more away from purebreds, he would likely not have health problems. Schnoodles are very healthy dogs, normally. I would take a puppy mill dog over ANY dog bred by a show breeder. Mixes are so much healthier it isn't even funny. I was trying to buy from "reputable" breeders.

My sister is just like you. She thinks purebreds are the best things in the world. She got her Belgian Malinois from Bonnie Craig, a member of the American Belgian Malinois Club. This dog has elbow dysplasia, pannus, progressive retinal atrophy (PRA), hemangiosarcoma, and cataracts. Her other dog is a Welsh Terrier, from a so-called "reputable" breeder. He has lens luxation, glaucoma, allergies and seizures. She just got a new Barbet puppy and at 5 months old it has elbow dysplasia, hip dysplasia, eye problems and epilepsy. She hates mixed breeds and says that I just got lucky. LOL

My brother imported an Aidi from Morocco. That dog has hip dysplasia, dislocated hips and patellar luxation. His older dog, a Bolognese, has hip dysplasia, arthritis and patella luxation. He told me he wants to get a Goldendoodle for his next dog.

My mother has seven dogs. Her Shetland Sheepdog collie eye anomaly, cataracts, progressive retinal atrophy (PRA), coloboma, eyelash abnormalities, and a particularly severe and painful form of corneal dystrophy. He has recently been diagnosed with possible epilepsy and heart disease. She also has a Belgian Malinois (half-brother to my sister's dog), elbow dysplasia, pannus, progressive retinal atrophy (PRA) and is dying from hemangiosarcoma. Her Miniature Bull Terrier glaucoma, lens luxation, is deaf and has kidney disease. Her Rat Terrier has retinal atrophy, lens luxation, bad joints (knees and hips), is lame, in constant pain, bad knees, luxating patellas, bad hips with hip dysplasia and legg-calves-perthes. Her Spinone Italiano has canine hip dysplasia (CHD), and minor issues like otitis externa, ectropion, cerebellar ataxia, and suffered gastric torsion. He also has allergies and elbow dysplasia. Her Komondor has hip dysplasia, eye problems, entropion (a deformity of the eyelid), and juvenile cataracts, and has bloated twice, also known as gastric torsion or gastric dilatation volvulus. She now has a Labradoodle with absolutely no health problems and is going to be getting an Aussiedoodle when her Shetland Sheepdog passes (should be very soon now).

My BFF is like me. She bought a Mudi from a "reputable" breeder. When I say "reputable" I mean these are the AKC show dogs with the club membership and all that BS. This dog has hip dysplasia, epilepsy, cataracts, elbow dysplasia and patellar luxation. She now has a Springerdoodle and a Newfiedoodle. They are healthier due to hybrid vigor.

One of my other friends has a Eurasier. OMG That dog is a mess! Hip dysplasia, elbow dysplasia, patellar luxation, hypothyroidism, ectoption, entropion, distichiasis and progressive retinal atrophy. Needless to say, he is blind and uses a four wheel cart. Her other dogs are a Bernedoodle, Saint Berdoodle and an Irish Doodle.

My ex-boyfriend had a Siberian Husky and a Shetland Sheepdog. The Siberian Husky was blind from cataracts, progressive retinal atrophy and corneal dystrophy. The Shetland Sheepdog was blind from collie eye anomaly, cataracts, progressive retinal atrophy. We still keep in touch and he now has a Sheepadoodle, Cavapoo, Cockapoo, Swiss Doodle and Pyredoodle. They are healthier due to hybrid vigor.

My neighbor and friend has a 5-year-old German Shepherd Dog. He has hip dysplasia, elbow dysplasia and a blood disorder. He has to get a blood transfusion every six weeks and uses a four wheel cart to get around. They are going to euthanize him soon, but have bought an Aussie Pom for their children.

My neighbor in my new house that I'm buying is a breeder of West Australian Terriers, Griffonlands, West Highland Corgis, French West Highlanders and Jack Highland Terriers. Her breeding dogs have come from what you would call "backyard breeders" and are the healthiest purebreds I've ever seen. But, then again, they aren't bred to be show dogs.

I met a woman at the dog park who has become a friend of mind. She used to have Pembroke Welsh Corgis. She got tired of them having invertrebral disc disease, hip dysplasia, epilepsy and degenerative myelopathy. She had a Cardigan Pembroke Corgi, Pembroke Corswiss, Shiba Corgi, West Highland Corgi and Worgi. She told me she would never have a purebred again. I told her I couldn't agree more.

My niece has a Peke-A-Boo, English Toy Spanese and Mini Foxingese. They are all very healthy dogs. Also, they are very intelligent.

My brother has a gorgeous Golden Indian Dog and just got a Native American Newfie.

My own vet has a Coton Mi-ki, Mi-kitese and Mi-orkie. She is a firm believer in hybrid vigor. She only has crossbreeds, too.
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Re: UGH - Smooshed faced chihuahuas

Postby TamanduaGirl » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:38 pm

I knew a chihuahua breeder who regularly had dogs live into their 20's even mid to late 20s like 26 and 28 sometimes. If a breeder shows but doesn't health test or cull from breeding parents who have offspring that had unhealthy young then they are not good breeders. Just showing means nothing except they know they can make more money if they show. You need to check the breeder out, see their records, talk to others who bought animals from them, showing means very little actually. A breeder who health tests and culls when problems show up will have healthier animals than random cross breeding where none of that is done.
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Re: UGH - Smooshed faced chihuahuas

Postby Onyx » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:15 pm

That's interesting, considering that my parents got a Yorkshire terrier (that's still currently alive, just in the hands of one of my mother's friends) back in 2010. She's doing just fine! She's perfectly healthy, actually.

My dad had a purebred rottweiler and a Samoyed back in the day, and claims he had little problems with them.

My aunt has had purebred giant, standard, & mini schnauzers, and currently owns a wire fox terrier and a welsh terrier. None of them have any significant problems (except for the fox terrier, who is having some age-related issues such as cataracts. She's around 16-17 I think). She had nothing but praise to tell me about her dogs, and actually wants another schnauzer.

My parents also used to have a Catahoula cur, with only some eye problems.

Meanwhile, my aunt also has a terrier mix, who is actually the one with the problems, especially with obesity. We also had a corgi/kelpie a few years ago, who had severe back problems and a skin allergy. She died at 8.

So it looks to me that you just had a serious run of bad luck. Also, you have to do far more than checking to see if they are registered in a kennel club or breed club. Sometimes, good breeders are few and far between. I may have to get a doberman out of state because, apparently, there are no good dobie breeders in Louisiana. It's been a couple years and I am still trying to determine what breeder I'll buy from (or if I'll adopt). Responsible breeders work towards health as number 1 priority, doing many health tests and only breeding the healthiest dogs.

Any dog, purebred or mix, can have issues. Both can live a short life, or can live a long life.
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